Yeah, it's so tricky. And again, I don't know that this is true in every case, but I think like when you get to that deeper, real, sometimes really ugly stuff, that is when transformation on their terms can happen. Like, I know that's such a thrown around word and everything. Like, but there's a reason I think it doesn't work to just like scream your position at somebody. Like we talked about last time. Um, sometimes it's like I'm just screaming into the echo chamber of people who follow me who already believe everything I believe and like it feels like I'm doing something, but really what's the point? Because the people I actually wish would change their minds are not seeing this at all on social media. They're never going to. But when you're in a relationship with a real person who shares something that they might know socially is not okay with most people. Mhm. Usually it's like I take it as this person's open to talking about it. They're they've shared it. They're open to talking about it. Again, it doesn't come up a lot for me now as a business coach. It's come up from time to time, but like came up a lot in relationship stuff, I imagine. Like lots of beliefs like women are inherently untrustworthy was one I've heard a lot in different ways. I'm like, where did that come from? And you and five other people I talked to this week. Fascinating.
So fun. And then they were willing to explore it with a woman. That that's very interesting. Yeah, it's and it makes me curious as well like sometimes it might be coming out of a space of like, oh yeah, I feel safe to share what I'm really feeling. Sometimes it might be coming as like a pushing away tactic or like a I'm feeling too v vulnerable or like stay away from me. Either way, I think with if the if the coach is in a position to be curious without taking it personally, it is very fruitful to poke at and explore potentially. That part of my business I feel like was like coaching trial by fire because it was a lot of like I'm feeling a certain way about this person. Oh. managing and I'm like, can I just hold it because there's no one else in their life that can? Mhm. Can I hold it and like go through this with them
and see what is on the other side of the whatever reaction they were expecting. Mhm. Or they're used to. Right. How long did you do that for? Gosh, long enough to write a book about it. It was like the first It was like the first several years of my coaching business. Wow. Someone told me I needed a niche and I was like, "Okay, fine." The best thing in my relation in my life that got better from coaching was my marriage. A coach on marriage. It was very nice. But then I was like, "Oh, this is it's it's hard." I to any relationship coaches out there, I know what you're going through. It's hard. Did you coach uh each like two people at the same time? Sometimes on the same session and sometimes I would coach a couple and I would meet with them separately. And it was like I was coaching two different people in two different relationships because they have very different accounts of what was happening. Yeah. Not all of them. I coached some amazing couples that like solved incredible things. And like I became a business coach because so many of my relationship coaches were like, "All right, this is great. We still have like six more weeks and I'm in a great place in my relationship. What else what else can we do?" I'm like, "Well, we're all business owners. Let's let's talk about that." So, um, but yeah, like incredibly hard stuff at times, too. Yeah. How did you manage the like when personal stuff came up for you or when you had a a visceral reaction to something that one of the clients said
it was it was that like ooh how does it feel when you say that? Mhm. I can tell I'm like and in my mind I'm like because I'll tell you how I feel. But it was like I would I would actually intentionally this is kind of a yoga teacher trick actually. So when I used to teach yoga my clients all thought I was very manipulative because whenever we would do the hardest poses I would slow down soften my voice. I would get really quiet so people had to really lean in. And then we'd be like I'd be like now we're going to just keep holding plank and we're going to keep holding it and I know you're shaking but I believe that you can do that and we did very and so it was I would actually sometimes do that. I'm like I'm when I feel like I want to harden I'm going to intentionally soften
in the face of like what's hard. I don't know that I would recommend that for everybody because I think there is a nervous system repatterning that had to happen when I was no longer in that position. But I was doing the best I could with the techniques I had at the time. Um, and some some deeply healing things happened. I mean, it's better than like hanging up the phone on a client.
Yeah. Wow, that's fascinating. Yeah. Have you What are your thoughts on the question of like what do you do when you don't like the person you're coaching? I don't coach anybody I don't like. Yeah.
What about you? A same. Yeah. But I don't know. Okay. Yes. There are people that like I would not coach and like if if I can't get to a place where I like and or love, not in like an inappropriate way, but in a like humanity sort of way. If I can't get to a place where I love and like a client, I don't think I have business coaching them because I'm not able to like I think part of my job as a coach is to like come from the perspective of my client makes sense and like I can be on their side. Yeah. in some way. Not in a like I don't have to validate everything they they do, nor should I, but I should be able to like get on their side in some way. Um, if I can't do that, I don't think I can coach them responsibly. Yeah. But I also I don't know if I get like I don't think I can take credit for this necessarily, but I find it pretty easy. I found it very easy to like my clients or to find something to like and admire in them. 100%. Yeah. If you're talking to somebody who's interested in opening their mind and changing potentially changing their worldview, they want to do some inner mindset work. Like what's not to like? Even if they're not like a person you would go to dinner with, like I want more of those people in the world. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I take it Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. No, it's okay. Um, even like I don't know like I can be fascinated by anyone.
So I don't know if like I need to like them in a sense that yeah like I would hang out with them but I can be like curious about anyone. If I can be curious about you I think I might be able to coach you. I think that's maybe like the that's the questions like are you fascinated with this person because if you're I think I agree with you. I think if you're not curious about them, you're like I want to know what makes this person tick. We don't have business coaching them. I could coach people I like and would want to hang out with socially, but like I'd much rather be fascinated with them. It's not a requirement. They don't have to be like a likable jovial person for me to want to coach them. I think I mean I say that and at the same time part of part of a lot of the work that I do it's so intertwined with the business. I also have to be interested in their business. I'm like, if I don't understand your vision, I just feel like I don't have any business talking about your content if I don't get who your clients are and what your business is doing and like what you want and what your v like there's a lot of pieces, if I can be fascinated and I can in basic terms understand what it is they're trying to create, I and it's great. But yeah, the T wife book probably not for me. Although I would be very fascinated by that person. That could be a funny TV show like like a reality show like you have to coach people who have like not just opposing world views but like offensive views to to you and you have to coach them to a milestone.
It is weird because I would actually like there's a part of me maybe it's like a malicious part of me. I don't know maybe I need to examine it more but I would actually like love to coach a trap wave here folks is open. Yeah. Come on. I'm sure I make it sound very appealing. They'll be like no I'm willing to try it just for a social experience. I would I would be I I would be so fascinated with that person. I would have so many questions for them like so is so interesting to me. Again, I would want to ask myself like what am I creating? So I do I want to make help that person become more effective in what they're putting out into the world? No, probably not. So I would have to examine that. But just from like a purely selfish like I'm interested in this intellectual exercise, I do I would be very interested in doing that. Okay, I want to play the devil's advocate. I'd be curious to hear what people think about this too. Like listeners, please chime in. I did not expect this to be like the I love this. Okay. So, I would watch that reality show first of all and like on a very serious note, would you rather somebody with a very different worldview than you get coached by you or get coached by somebody who is totally supportive in that worldview and is just going to like
help them be the best thing they are in that environment. Yeah. I mean, I guess it depends from this perspective. I would not wish for that to happen. No, I think it No, please. Um, I think it and this might be true. I think this is true for like any client that I work with, whether I share their views or not, are they open to examining themselves? Are they open to changing? Are they open to questioning their beliefs? I think that's like the fundamentals of coaching. If if they are open to those things, not that they have to like suddenly adopt my worldview, but I I would want them to be like open to connecting with themselves honestly around some questions like is it like do do I feel an integrity to be like profiting off of a worldview that is like pretending to not be profiting? Like I don't just put that out there. It's like a hypothetical. Um, it would be interesting to me to talk honestly about like Yeah. Like what are your values? Are you in alignment with your values? Y and like what are the implications of that? Yeah. Because I actually I've had, you know, same same as you. I've had like a wide variety of clients with world different worldviews, different religions, all of this stuff. And I sometimes I'm like, gosh, I feel so lucky that this person can bring me something that would they would be so ashamed of sharing inside their community of beliefs or religion. Um, and they bring it to me and I'm just like, tell me what's wrong with that. And they'll they'll cite like a passage from a spiritual book and I'm like, okay, that's what a book says, but tell me why that's wrong for you. Like I'm still not clear on what makes that so bad for you because it was the choice you made. Like I sometimes think it's I kind of wonder like would it be better for people to you know this is going way back when we talked about like does someone have to have the same life experience as you in like to coach you? It's like I think sometimes it's really freeing to be in a space with someone who does have a totally different idea about the world. Yeah. Um because it gives you potentially
the space and I mean for sure the other person, but it gives you the space as the client to not automatically be judged or told what to do from the pre-existing rules that you're getting coached on anyway, right?
So, I don't know. I think it I I think it could be a great TV show. Whoever wants to do it, let us know. We'll watch. Yeah. Although, I think I would be horrible on a reality show. I was like too afraid of cameras. I'm too awkward. I would be like, "No, I don't I don't know that that would appeal to me." But yeah, I do think it's interesting. I also I also want to be clear the specific I don't know why I feel the need to say this but I think um I actually think like I'm I don't think there's like anything inherently wrong with being a tradife. What I don't like about it is is like the hypocrisy of like profiting off of an ideology that's when you're pretending you're not profiting right million followers and brand deals but you're just a stay-at-home mom. But you're just a stay at home mom and like this is something that you should all aspire to, right? That's that's the problem. Especially when it's used to like justify taking away rights from women anyway. Or telling other women what to do, right? Or telling them what to do, how they should be, what the like ideal of femininity is. Um, I think it's awesome for women to find like ways to make money and to be wildly successful. Like that's fantastic. I also do think like it is hard in a coaching dynamic with me to do like hide aspects of what yourself or like live out of integrity. I will challenge that if I see it and I don't think that's necessarily from a like I'm imposing my worldview on you as much as it is on a like what are your values? Are you living in accordance with your values and what does that look like? And if you're not, why not? Like what comes up when you explore that? So I do think it could be interesting. Yeah. [ __ ] Coaches have totally different views of the world. I say that when I think about clients coming to me, but when I think about going to a coach who has a completely different worldview, I'm like, uh, no thank you. Yeah. They're going to be shocked. Or maybe they won't. Maybe they'll be like, "I'm not going to judge you because you're not in this worldview that I am in." And who knows? Maybe, but I'm also like, "Can I trust you?" I don't know. Yeah, that I mean, gosh, what a That's the question. It's like I think it all comes down to trust. And there are things I definitely would never tolerate in my personal life that I will totally explore with a client because I'm like, "They trusted me. They brought this to me. They want to talk about this. Mhm. This is maybe the one time in the world where they've been able to open this up and they're opening it up with somebody who believes something fundamentally different. Mhm. They probably know that because I'm not shy about who I am. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting stuff. Okay. So, I'm wondering are there any like facets of this that we have overlooked? You know, I'm going to I'm going to send you every single email we get though from the uh the influencers. Have you ever actually gotten an email about you have like not like a bot email? No, they're all bot emails, I think. Okay. I think I think they're all bot emails. Um a lot of like I got one from a winery who was like, "Hi, our CEO on your thing." And I'm like, I think you think we're like a wine. We're like wine connoisseurs. What are they somales? We're Somalia. We're going to talk about your wine, but like you want to send us a bottle of wine. I'll drink your bottle. We'll drink it. We'll give an honest review. I'm not a wine expert, but yeah. I'm like, I don't think this will help your brand to our show.
That'd be really funny if we just randomly had a C like a random CEO on. Like I don't even know how that would go. That'd be fun. Yeah. Okay. Real pitches are welcome, but not AI pitches.
Yeah. Funny. Um, okay. So, I think we kind of are we're kind of in agreement. We're kind of aligned. Um, have you ever had to shut down a coaching session?
Like in the middle of a session, say, "I am not comfortable. Let's get off the phone."
Not that I can remember. I don't think I have. I kind of wish I had for the show. I hope it happens. It would be great for the show. I like that you're already producing this.
I don't I can't think of any
not that comes to mind. Have you? I did cut a session short once. Yeah. Mhm. The person started yelling at me to like stop asking them questions. Oh, wow. They were like I think they wanted me to it was it was about they were having some major frustrations. Their situation was terrible. Um but they were like yelling at me about their a situation that had happened and I was like okay you seem very upset. I don't think I can coach you. Um they had some sessions left. I was like, I'm happy to rebook those when you feel ready, but I don't think this is fruitful right now. So, I'm going to get off the phone. Now, this was like way way back when I was a newer coach. You know, I'm sure I could have handled it differently, but I was just like I like I was like watching the clock and I was like, I cannot talk to this person for 15 more minutes. That's such a powerful move though, especially as like a young coach to be like, yeah, that I'm not nothing good. I can't make a new job for you. You are now not yelling about fring being frustrated. You're yelling at me. And I'm literally the only person on your team here who's trying to help you. And that was what happened with that client? Nothing. Never heard from them again. Oh, wow. they didn't ever rebook and I didn't reach out. I think I did reach out. I was just like you you were really upset. Um it wasn't like I was not like, "Hey, you're not allowed to yell at me because I'm like I don't really care if people yell in their sessions." Like they're welcome to yell and scream. Um I don't usually take it personally, but I was like I can add that time back onto a future session, but like you were not in a space to coach. And there's I mean I've had other instances um where someone has gone through something really big and I just get a sense where I'm like I don't think today I don't like I think that if I start coaching you you're just going to feel like pressure to have a response and pressure to like I did learn something from that because I was like you're just going to feel like you're supposed to do something and I think we should just move it to next week. Yeah, like that's so powerful. Maybe let yourself just go cry. And I mean I have different I have different tools now. So now I'm like we could just process through anything.
But yeah, back then I'm like I don't know. I'm going to ask you how that thought makes you feel and you're going to yell at me. I don't have anything else. I have more now. I have more. such a like that's so powerful that you were able to recognize cuz I do think a lot of early coaches or coaches who are only trained in like cognitive work there is there are times when that's just like not what's needed for the from the client like you have to I think there are certain conditions in order for cognitive coaching to be effective and so like how powerful that you at least realized there are limitations yelled at. I was like, I don't want to get yelled by this person. Not doing that again. Yeah. Now I'm just like, please, please yell and scream and swear. It really doesn't bother me at all. But like back then I was like, I have nothing else. I also always keep now I have like two um I have a tarot deck and an oracle deck on my desk like always. So if I even sometimes, you know, I have a couple clients who we've worked together for a long time. We get through things really quickly and sometimes I'm like, "All right, we have 20 minutes left in this session. You've talked through everything. You're feeling good. Like, do you want to just do some cards? Like, should we talk to your future self? Should we like do some So, I've I've started to like do that openly for people who want that in their coaching. And that's also been really fun because often things come up and they're like, "Oh my gosh, how did we not talk about this? I can't believe the card just showed me to think that we I actually do need coaching on that and it brings up like a whole other area which is kind of fun. I think it would be fun to talk about have a um podcast episode like about different methodologies or like the importance of having different methodologies and approaches cuz like I think that yeah like there are times when cognitive coaching is absolutely it and there are times when like I've had entire sessions which used to be such a no no in my mind I've had entire sessions where we just like they just like vent and like as like they're venting in such a way that they're like moving emotion through themselves, but I'm not like trying to change or challenge a single thing. In fact, sometimes I'm like egging them on because like they've been kind of avoiding certain emotions. So, I'm like I'm going to step out of the like role of the coach that I learned. I'm going to be like, "Yeah, that does suck. Tell me more about it." Like in certain modes that would be a terrible thing to say and in certain modes it's like the medicine that's needed. I love it. Yeah. Let's do an episode about like picking your medicine as a coach. Oo. Okay. Okay. Um that's so good. Yeah. I mean I just it's so funny because person who yelled at me was a it was in a different context. I'm like gosh I don't even use that tool anymore. H like I don't even do thought models with people. Mhm. ever. Like it might come up sometimes, but I'm like that used to be my one trick. Mhm. Yeah. So, yes, let's talk about the the myriad of possibilities and all along the coaching tool belt. Yeah, I'm excited for this because I feel like I'm going to get some ideas. Me, too. I can't wait to hear all the things you do. It's so fun. Yeah. Oh well, I hope this was helpful for people. You can always end a session everybody. You don't Yeah. Like take that as a lesson. If something doesn't feel right or good to you, you can end it. You can pause it. And like sometimes it might mean the coaching relationship is over. Sometimes it really does not mean that at all. Like sometimes that's actually a signal to the client like this is a safe place and like you know this is what it looks like to step in it. Like I think there are a lot of different outcomes to that. So you don't necessarily have to like keep going with something that you feel is not helping. Yeah. I mean you it you're not under obligation to like suddenly not be a human with your own values and worldview just because someone paid you for coaching. Like I think that that like as much as I'm like yes I can be open and all this stuff like there's some things I would never be open about and never be okay about. Um it's a relationship. Just because someone's paying you doesn't mean you have to hear things or absorb things that like would cause you harm. Yes, there's a better person out there for that for them. Um, it doesn't have to be you. You don't owe someone like your space and and that's why I think consultations are so important. Like we think consultations are sales calls. It's like, no, it's to check and see if the relationship is one that you can contribute your best work and that person can receive what they're needing but in a way that's like respectful of the situation. Yeah. It's like, do I want to go into this partnership? Or to call back to our recent episode, like, is this a person I want to and can collaborate with? Mhm. And that's a really important question to answer and like your criteria for collaboration with a client will probably be different than your criteria for other forms of collaboration. But I think that's an important question to ask yourself. And I think Erin, you touched on this point earlier, but I think a lot of coaches, especially new coaches, can have like a scarcity mentality around clients and like, oh, I have to like hold on to the clients that I have. And if you're spending a lot of time and energy coaching yourself around a specific client, obsessing over a specific client, having some angst, needing a lot of additional emotional support, maybe you can coach them responsibly. Maybe it will be a growthful experience for yourself and you don't have to. And it you can always choose to put that time and energy elsewhere. And doing that like if you put that time and energy into like connecting with clients who you actually find it very easy and joyful to coach. Yeah. That could be an excellent business move. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent business move. And like it's so much more fun to like have people on your calendar who you're like I just want to help this person win. I want to help this person feel good. I want to help this person tap into something that they didn't know was possible. Like that's so good. That feels amazing and it's so value aligned. So yeah, I wish that business for everyone. Yes, me too. How was your drink? Very, very tasty. It felt like a dessert. How was yours? Mine was good. I feel like I could sing an opera now. My throat is all lubricated. I feel like the exact opposite cuz it's like feel like heavy, sugar, dairy. Amazing. Well, thanks everybody for listening. Yes. Thank you, Erin. Talk to you soon. Thank you. Bye. Bye.
