Hello. Hi. Do you want to introduce us today? Yes. This is the coaching mixer and today we are talking about a surprise topic because I don't know what it is yet. Um, but we're drinking cozy winter beverages. Yes. Nice mug. Thank you. I'm the best dad ever today. I don't even know how we have this this mug. We don't have children, so I don't know where Jordan got this mug or why, but that's what we're doing today. Even better. I'm a parent and I don't have any mugs that say best parent of any kind. So, there. Now I know what to get you for your birthday. What are you drinking in there? I am drinking spiked hot chocolate. So, it's hot cocoa with uh Bailey's in it. It's very sweet and very creamy and tasty. That's so funny. I almost I was going to go for a hot chocolate. I'm drinking a hot potty. Yeah. I don't know what's in it. It's lemon and a cinnamon stick. And I think Steve said it's like bourbon or something. He was like, "Don't worry, I've got you." I was on a call to like five minutes ago and I'm like, "I coaching mixer." And so he made me this and it's very delic. It feels very medicinal. Like what I was like if I had a sore throat. Okay. So yeah, because I'm like usually liquid medicine is not pleasant to me. This is nice. This is like honey and something. Yeah. Nice. It is nice to have like a warm cozy beverage when it's really cold outside. Yeah. I was saying to my kids, I'm like, it's too cold for clouds today. Can't even have clouds. It's so sunny. It's very nice. But yeah, nice from the window. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, ma'am. All right. So, today we have a couple of listener Q&As's by our MVP listener who we were just talking about before we started recording. Shannon Puny, thank you so much for all of your contributions. She's made like many, many listener suggestions. I feel like she's kind of curating the podcast at this point. Yeah, we're basically just talking about whatever she wants us to talk about. So, thank you, Shannon. Yes. Thank you, Shannon. You're the best. Um, and so today she had a few different questions. I don't know how many we'll get to. Um, knowing us, maybe one or like maybe half of one. Were we like, you know, I don't know if we can really have much to say about this and then talk for an hour. Yeah. Like that Spongebob like one hour later meme. Mhm. Okay. So, her first question was, "What do you do when something becomes personal in coaching?" Or I think that's a different question than the second one, but I'm just going to say it anyway. Um, like what do you do when you don't like the person you're coaching or the person you're coaching says something that you don't like? I want to hear yours first. Okay. Um yeah, I think that I have very different answers for both of these questions. I think um when something becomes personal in coaching, like totally natural that happens quite often. I'm human. I have stuff going on in my life. I think um most of the time it's something I just like kind of catch my brain going in a direction and like focus my attention back on the person that I'm coaching. Sometimes I can use it like to the benefit of the coaching like partner with my humanity in that. Um, if it doesn't feel like it's something that's helpful to bring into the session, like it's bringing up some unmanaged emotions and I'm like not wanting to make it about myself, then I will um yeah, just like kind of like bring curiosity back to the client if if I can or when I can. Um, I don't think I've had to do this in a session, but I am open to like maybe just like taking a moment if I'm finding it really challenging to do so or like pausing and just like kind of calling it out. Um, what are your what what do you do? I'm like trying to think if it's ever h I mean for sure it's happened. There's I have coached people who have different beliefs. you know, we had our conversation about like different political beliefs or, you know, different religions. We've kind of covered a lot of maybe the more sensitive things that can come up. Um, I remember one instance where something became very personal. the person had um I'll say a bias about something and said it and I was just like, "Oh, that's so interesting. Did you know that I actually have a lot of experience with this topic?" And they were like, "Oh, really? Tell me more." And it was more like it didn't have like an emotional reaction. And it was just like, "Oh, this person maybe doesn't know a lot about this or they've they've heard a lot of information from people who don't know what they're talking about." Like witchcraft is one I get all the time. People will say something about like, "Oh, those scary witches." And I'm like, "Do you know I'm a witch?" And people are like, "No." Like, "Yeah, like what do you think it is when you say that?" Um, you know, not not to turn it around and make it about me, but just as a moment of like so often, I think when people are fearful or misinformed about something, it's often because they've never had experience with somebody who knows a little more than them or they've only had experience where someone comes at them with their experience. So, it's I'm kind of like, oh, if you you know, if you're ever curious about what this actually looks like for someone who's living with it, you know, like if someone said to me, "Oh, well, kids are such a nightmare." I I would have no problem saying, "Well, I have kids." And that it hasn't actually been my experience. I can see why you would probably think that and I can I'm sure I would corroborate with that at times, but you know, I think it I think it can be a different experience than that. And I will just I think when I I will try my best even if it's personal and feels a little sticky to like do what I think my job is as a coach and just open their mind around thoughts or beliefs that maybe aren't helping them. Mhm. If I see an opportunity to do that, I think sometimes people will shy away from doing that if it's about a personal topic. But I'm just like, well, who's going to open someone's mind about something if not their coach in a really safe space or just say, you know, there's another opinion about that. Yeah. It's hard though, I think. Yeah. I love I love how like non-threatening that is. Like that seems like a a great way to just be like, "Oh, another perspective exists and I am proof of that perspective." I also think I like your answer because I think it's more in the spirit of the question. I think like when something becomes personal in coaching, my mind went straight to like if you're going through something and like overidentifying with something the client is going through, like what do you do? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, but I think it I think what your um I thought you meant like if you're offended by something your clients No, I think I think that is what Shannon was actually asking. Um I think for probably because of recent experiences, my father went through like a health issue and like some of the clients that I coach are also dealing with parents with various health issues. So like I think that's where my mind went like how do I manage my own emotional experience? But I do I I love the idea of just being like, "Oh, like you know, I I am this that you're talking about. It's interesting that your perspective on it is XYZ. Tell me about it." Yeah. I also think like I don't know. I don't know what I would do if I had a client who was like committed to a pers actually I think I do know what I would do if I had a client who was committed to a perspective that I found like abhorent personally like if they were if they were openly racist and like not doing the work to challenge themselves on that or like openly you know phobic about various identity and not doing not in interested in unpacking that I would that's not the client for me I have no interest in supporting them in that way. I've had people who um I've had I've never had this happen with a client, but I have had consultations where somebody like made their opinions about things I feel strongly around unknown. And I was like, I don't think this would be a good match. Like I've just said, not because I'm like I'm so offended and insulted by you. I'm just like I think I might have a worldview that's not going to be supportive. Like, and I'll be fully transparent because this has never happened with a client. This has only ever happened on consults. If I'm on a consultation with someone and I'm like, I have because I'm mostly coaching around their business. So, a lot of times the touchy subjects don't often come up, right? Um, but if someone shares a lot on a consult, I'm like, well, they felt safe to tell me some things. I feel like that's a gift from the universe for me to say, if I'm not interested in helping this person make more money and have more power in the world, I just won't work with them. Yeah. And what a what a gift to learn that upfront. I do. I think it's a gift. Yeah. I've decided that I'm telling myself that. I don't know if it's true, but I'm just like, this is an important piece of information. I'm not interested in this person, you know, being successful. I really I don't want this person to be successful. Then that's like a total conflict of interest. How am I going to be their business coach? Yeah. I think if it's a if it's someone who is on like who is unpacking certain world views I might ask myself so first of all I would be transparent with the person like if they had a perspective I might actually say you know for the interest of this relationship my perspective is actually the opposite and like it's you can decide if maybe that means I'm not the coach for you and this is only if I've decided like yeah I'm game for this like I might put that out there. Yeah. And if there like this is the perspective I will be coming from. I'm not necessarily going to like force any of my worldview or opinions on you but it is the perspective that I will be coming from. So I might say something like that, but I would want to do some reflection on myself. Like what you said, if someone is like just has a worldview that I find gross and I do not want to them to have more power, like absolutely I won't be their coach because I think coaching is all about helping if they come to you with more effective book about like how to manage your woman. I want to write this book later, right? I don't think that's the creative project you're signing up for. No, I don't think I'm invested in in that or the like Proud Wives Guide to toppling feminism or something like maybe I'm not the coach for that. Yeah, what a gift to know that. What a gift that I will not be I have the opportunity to opt out of contributing to that. Yeah. And I mean I I I know we're we're joking around a little bit, but I mean there are professions where people don't have that option. Like regulated health care professions often don't have, at least where I live, you know, they can't just like turn you away because they don't like you. Yeah. So, which I think is is great in certain contexts. And also I wouldn't want someone like massaging me if they like hated me. They were like, "Oh, I was think like a doctor." Like I'm glad that doctors do not are not I think I'm glad that doctors are not allowed to discriminate based I don't know. Um but yeah, I think it's an interesting question. It's mostly to be like perfectly transparent, it's mostly hypothetical. I don't know that I've had this happen. I have coached people with very different worldviews in the context of coaching for another um program which has been interesting and I I guess for me that's a little bit different especially because I haven't been coaching like I'm aligned with what I am actually coaching them on right I also maybe this is naive of me but I feel Like the for me like the core of coaching is to help people like guide themselves toward like greater self-connection which I think in my opinion leads to like greater love and acceptance. Yeah. And so I that's beautiful. Thank you. But yeah, like I I tend to think if a person is given space to actually like process through their fear, connect to like whatever is underneath that fear and like not be judged for that process. I think people do tend to move toward a more like loving and accepting worldview. So, I guess that's kind of how if I if I were coaching someone on a business that was like, we are a white supremacist business, like, yeah, no, thank you. Goodbye. But if there is someone who's like running an agnostic business who maybe has some problematic worldviews, I do think I'm okay, at least in like a more casual like one-off basis, in coaching them. That said, if they did say something that was like openly racist or misogynistic, I don't know how I would handle that like on the call. I might I might say something. I don't know what would you how would you approach that if someone like if you were already in a coaching relationship with someone and like they did say something that was like kind of awful. I think it's I think it's hypothetical.
Um,
oh, no, it's not. I've I've had when I was a relationship coach, I've definitely had clients and CL I would coach both partners often and sometimes someone would say something sexist and I'll I'll let you imagine who that was, which partner of what gender. Um, and I would like I would register in my body and I would say like how does that thought make you feel? Like when you believe that, how does that help your relationship when you feel like when you say that? What response do you get? And we kind of I just kind of explore not going, "Hey, that was a sexist, [ __ ] up thing to say." Even though maybe in my mind I'm like, "I would tell you that in a personal relationship, but you're here. in as safe a place as I can make in a vulnerable position. I don't want to respond to what you're saying with reaction because I actually welcome it and I want to see it and that's what I've promised my clients is a space where they don't have to apologize. They can actually say what they think and we can look at whether it's helping them or not. So I can like bring it down to in my body hearing that as a woman that felt like a rude comment. How do you think your partner feels when you're directing that energy towards them? Like I can tell you my perspective and I kind of use my barometer as like a conversation thought like like a like a brain gymnastics with them. And some and I have you know maybe it is naive maybe our warm clothingy drinks are making it naive making us naive but I really I truly believe I have watched people change in the safety of like being feeling seen being heard and actually having the time to question things that they are so used to like defending or not sharing. like and there are topics that I I think are probably off the table for me because I'm a human, but for so many things in a coaching relationship, I can get myself interested in like why do you think that? Where did that come from? Where did you learn that? How old is that belief? Does that feel good when you say that? Is where is that coming from? What part of you does that come from? Who taught you that? Like I can kind of go through the coachy questions around something because usually if it feels bad for me as their container holder, it probably feels bad for them too. Yeah. And even if it doesn't, that's something to get That's fascinating and something to get curious about. Now I'm like kind of excited. I'm like, "Yeah, come to me with your your perspectives." She'll help you write your book on how to keep your I will not do that. I will not do that. But I think what you're identifying, you're identifying a dis like I think there's a distinction to be made around like I don't even know what terminology to use. It's like relational investigation almost and uh like more goaloriented outcomed driven coaching that I think I don't know if that's the right way of putting it but like it feels like there is an important distinction to make there cuz I think like for me the relational investigation piece of this is fascinating and I actually I have coached folks with a different like political ail ation on uh struggles that they were having with reconciling some of their like political ideologies and some of like the realities of what they were facing. And I loved it because it's so interesting like coaching is all about questioning your worldview and exploring options outside of the options that you see available to you. So like for me that was such a fruitful place to dig into. It was like there's so much nuance to it. It was so interesting. And I think I think partly how like you were able to like I think it required me to be able to maintain a little bit of emotional distance. I could not have had those conversations. If I had felt personally or emotionally threatened that I just wouldn't have been able to coach in that moment. But when I was able to do that, I loved that work. Um, but I think the more like goal oriented stuff, that's more for me to decide like what do I want to be creating in the world? Do I want to be creating a more successful Tradife book? Maybe not. Maybe that's not the project for me. Am I interested in Oh my god, we're going to get trolled. We're going to get now we're going to get people saying, "I heard you say Tradife on your podcast." And so clearly we have to send all of our Tread Life influencers to email you and ask to be on podcast and drink a cocktail.
You know, things were always going to get weird with a combination of cocktails and coaching. It's been too long that we've been doing this without things getting weird. Um, but yeah, I think it for me it does come down to like what am I building by participating in this? Am I building a more effective version of something that I think is like problematic or am I building like greater understanding, more space for self-connection, more relational resiliency? Those are things I'm interested in. The former is not really something that I'm personally interested in. Yeah. So good. Ooh. It's like a juicy part two of last week's conversation, I guess. So, yeah, this is like what last week's conversation looks like actually like in the coaching space. Yeah. And I do think like there are some things I think because of like aspects of my own identity, I am more equipped to navigate. Um, so I would want to be like honest with myself about what I am interested in and like capable of responsibly navigating. Yeah. Because at the same time it's like we could do this as a really interesting master level coaching exercise, but then it's like is it doing anything good for the world? Is it helping this person if you spend more time like if you then go have to go spend time with your coach coaching about your client and their beliefs you think are messed up but you're like sitting there like and how does that make you feel? Yeah. You know, I don't think that that's necessarily like that's not why we started our coaching businesses. Yeah, which is I mean I think why the more safety you can create early in the relationship to find out things that would be like a hell no for you when taking on a client. Um, it's really important. I think, yeah, like again, I hasn't I don't think I've had this happen in years, but this did used to come up when I would coach couples because one person would often be like really into the idea of coaching and they really connected with me and the other person was like skeptical and, you know, was just doing it in hopes of like saving the relationship. Um, but sometimes things that were really surprising would come out in those relationships and I would have to just like watch myself because I was like, "This person feels safe enough to tell me something that they probably never shared before and I think it's super messed up and I would never date someone who said this thing." But now we can do something like now we can now we have trust. Now we have space. If I can hold this and handle it and find out where that came from and what's that about and is that helping your relationship with this other person. Um, yeah, it's kind of like when people are willing to show you the ugly, messy stuff, too. I think you're f I think it's fine to freak out, but I think as coaches, we also maybe freak out internally and then take some time and decide and process and peer coach. Yeah. And that I think that's also an opportunity maybe for like rupture and repair if the person is available for it cuz I could see like I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily to be like oh that comment it like touch something kind of like difficult in me and I just want to like name that and I'm like okay listening to you now that you've said this want to just can we investigate it together? Yeah. Like how are you feeling? How did that feel to say? How did that like land with you? I think as opportunities to like deepen the relationship. Yeah. Those moments can be very powerful. And I do like I I hear you on the like barometer of trust piece cuz I'm not personally interested in a coaching relationship where like my clients feel like they have to uh hide pieces of themselves. I think that's like a little bit counter to the project of coaching. So yeah, it's kind it's a tricky thing to navigate. I think so tricky. Yeah. Yeah.
