And people are waking up. When did become Oh, can I ask this question? Like when when did the idea of like wokeness when did that become like a bad thing? [laughter] Oh my god. Like in spiritual circles being awake is such like a gorgeous thing to attain. Mhm. And I [clears throat] just noticed the like down on wokeness kind of vibe. Yeah, I think it came as like a severe backlash to like the Black Lives Matter movement. Um, but I don't know like the intricate history of it, but I think it in the last couple of years it's come as a backlash to ground that was gained by a lot of continuation of like civil rights movements in the modern era. Human rights. I hate call civil rights. I'm like, you mean human rights? Yeah. Yeah. It's me to say that. Yeah. We got to make it political. [laughter] It is it is human rights are political, too. Yeah. Anyway, I I mean, like all of that to say, it's really hard. It's really messy. I I'm trying to be like I I wouldn't say I'm neutral in any way. I'm not neutral. Like, if you look at my Instagram, you will see many pictures of me, my kids, with drag queens. Um those are some of my I love those and your cat photos. I'm always [laughter] my cats who are the queens of our house who we all serve. [laughter]
But it's like I don't know. I think being the person that like I this is does come from from witchcraft is like I'm the one and only witch that a lot of people know. Mhm. I'm not going to make that my entire identity with people, but I do want to welcome like, hey, this person is not what I thought this like I'm might be the only Canadian some people know.
whatever preconceived notions about that. It's like a very interesting like I don't know like I feel like I can be an ambassador for a lot of things with people um to not feel so separate and not feel so different. M I think part of how you do that now that you articulated it that way is by showing up as like a whole person [clears throat] and allowing yourself to show up a whole p as a whole person. I think that's maybe the difference between like um either
neut neutrality which I don't believe exists personally manufactured neutrality um which I think tends to always serve whatever the dominant doesn't serve doesn't serve you doesn't serve the people you love. Yes. Well, it might it might serve you in the sense that it enables Yeah. that if you exist in an identity that is like protected Yeah. or privileged. Um, but I think I think that's like part of the difference [snorts] between that and even like some of the more like I don't know how I feel about this term, but like performative activities where it's like people are like posting things to avoid a backlash rather than because or because they think they need to rather than because they actually like believe in it. Yeah. It's like allowing for for like honesty and humanity. Expressing that however feels right. If the news cycle is on your content calendar and you're not a journalist might be performative maybe unless it's like a way to think about I could see like actually as a way to think about how to serve totally people if that yes if that's like part of your thing. But I've I have had I've had business owners grapple with like, should I post about this? Should I d I'm like, [clears throat] I don't know. You're a furniture company. What do you what do you want to say about it? Like, do you want to post as yourself as as your company? Like, what do you think would be helpful? What do you think your what do you think the world needs? What do what do your clients need?
I I and I guess I guess the other because I don't post about it. I think my underlying thought about it is I'd rather like do a thing. And I think that sometimes to your point about maybe like performative things, it's like that can feel like you really did something. It's like I reshared this thing. I didn't research it. wasn't very thoughtful, but like it was a trendy thing. I've reposted I've done my activism today. [clears throat]
I don't know. Like I think it serves the social media platform because I think the only people who are going to see that are people who already believe what you believe. Mhm. I don't think it's going to change the minds of somebody who's not going to be on that algorithm seeing that they're not going to be served those ads. And you know, we also know the dark side of all of the internet is that some of that stuff is just going to be blocked. Mhm.
Yeah.
or specifically shown to people who like [laughter] or like almost gamed so that people who are like if you're enraged by it see it and then engage with it from but like not from a productive place. Yeah. And then they can burn themselves out and not actually do anything in the actual world. Mhm. I think that that's like that's like a new that's a new I'm not I I'm not judging that because I can I've I can get insensed by things that show up on my little phone too. There's I'm not immune to that. But I think it's like that's when we that's when I get careful with myself. I'm just like is this going to give me more attention and energy for the actual person I'm about to talk to?
to like support them deeply and be wi and be witness to like their the way they need to process today.
If I'm already half burnt out from watching the news all day or like people's retelling of the news,
it's going to be really hard for me to be present. I wonder what would happen if every I'll say coach or other service- based businesses if like rather than asking themselves what should I post to like appeal to my audience or to like talk to my audience if they ask themselves how can I be like what are my values and how can I be of service in in the direction of those values I think that would be very clarifying for [clears throat] a lot of people and it might lead some people to being much more vocal. Yeah. Because that's but it would be from a place of doing something like you point out. It wouldn't be just like kind of empty condolences words because they like are worried about getting backlash if they don't say anything. It would be like actually much more strategic and much more active. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think like the it's a fair assumption if we're talking about online stuff especially that you're going to get called out either way. Like just assume somebody's going to hate it and they're going to tell you. Yeah. Especially when emotions are so like people are exper rightly I think experiencing a lot of anger and a lot of fear and a lot of frustration and a lot of hopelessness and so that tends to like leak out in some kind of funky ways and social media is like designed to capitalize on it is and I think that's it. It's like it's designed to capitalize on it. Um it's often just like so misdirected. It's like instead of yelling at that person on Instagram, you could have made a phone call to somebody whose voice you might matter to. Yeah. Actually might have power to do something. Yeah. Yeah. So,
I I think it's just it's so tricky and everybody's kind of got to navigate it for themselves. Yeah. Cuz even with that, [laughter] like I feel like I'm being a little bit of like a um stick [clears throat] in the mud or like contrarian. even that I'm like I can conceive like I don't I'm not saying there's not inherently like there's no value in calling on an industry and industry leaders to like be present to the realities of the people that they've taken been have they been paid by. I don't think that's terrible, but I again I think it is important to assess like is this a like what values are being expressed through me doing this? Do these values align with the values that I want to be putting my time and energy into? And like what do I want to be building here? Like I could see if if a person were really dedicated to building a coaching industry that was more politically engaged and um more accessible to more people. I could see that leading to some actually really interesting conversations. They might not happen as like call outs on social media. Maybe they would as like a part of a strategy. I don't know. It probably depends a lot on the person, but [clears throat] yeah, I don't know where exactly I was going with this, but yeah, I'm with you. I think like I've seen some people do it really well. Like we have a we have a feminist coach friend in in common who I think does it beautifully. Yeah. I don't think she uh if we're thinking of the same one, I don't think she like does spend any time calling out other people. Really? not calling out but like talking about what's going on in the world and yeah and she does direct I think very thoughtfully she directs yes the heightened the emotions toward people who are actually like in positions of authority. It's like kind of like in comedy like not punching down like in activism I think she does a really good job of like punching up. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. It's it's it's a big one. It is. I know. And there's like so much there's so many layers to it and so much nuance to it. Um I think also like we haven't even touched on um how to like take care of yourself through experiencees of this and how to like figure out what you have capacity for, what you don't have capacity for, how you are able to serve. I mean, you you touched a little bit on this in terms of like being disciplined with doom scrolling. Yeah. But I think I mean to to just to say like everything you've just talked about, I think really considering all of those things to know where you stand and know you're like maybe I'm not a public person about this on social media. Maybe I have defined boundaries about what I do and don't talk about. But like then making peace with that and figuring out what you are going to do. You know, my my big like contribution to the
energy right now is like reminding my clients about their tending triad, reminding them to be taking care of themselves, to be modeling those things, to like, you know, not let myself sit on the computer and scroll till midnight. to try to lead by example, but then to also remind people that yes, someone is going to still have something to say. If you are running Facebook ads right now, people are going to say this is D. How dare you when this is happening? How dare you haven't talked about this thing and this thing and if you talk about this thing but you didn't talk about this other thing. Like there's always going to be people, especi women who run businesses. Oh, yeah. Mhm. My husband has never had somebody say to him, "How dare you try to sell your book while the world's on fire?" Yeah. They're like, "Thank you so much for telling us about this amazing book that you were a co-author of." He has never had a [laughter] comment. Yep. Runs very deep. [laughter] that like all of that [ __ ] about how we're not supposed to we're that's just so frivolous. How could you talk about this at a time like this? Well, how could you charge for your services as how can you charge so much for your services? Yes. all of this um it often lands on women and I think that like my contribution at least to my little pocket of the world of business is helping my people like stay connected to their vision and remember that if they freeze up and don't continue then all of those people who potentially they could have helped will not get help. They will just sit in despair. They won't get the tools they need. Um, you know, I work with people in a lot of different industries. Some of them are not as serious and lifealtering, but all of them have the potential to be. Mhm. So, it's sort of like how can I be the safe harbor with my people at least to not lose their big vision [clears throat] in all of the very real, very hard reality that's also existing, which I think is much easier and like kind of only possible in a sustainable way when they have answered some of the questions that we've raised and they don't feel like they're hiding or avoiding or like like when they when they [clears throat] feel aligned with however they choose to show up. Yeah. Which is something that's very powerful for you to be in a position to like help them dig into. And for the women I I often will just like reference it's really good when more of us when more of us who are thoughtful and really want the world to be a more loving inclusive place of human rights. It's better for us to have a lot more of the money. So don't stop making the money because we need the money to do the things. Yeah. We need to make having the money the good thing. that actually supports the world we want to create. Yeah. I'm also a fan of like all of the behaviors that we think of as like stuff to overcome in order to show up like the doom scrolling, like the feeling frozen. I like to think of those are to help my clients explore how something is being expressed through those experiences. Yes. And maybe it's like a need that you're having. If you're having that need, maybe your community is also having that need. So this isn't necessarily for like the furniture store owners, but like maybe more for the a really cool lamp. AB, that's true. Like cozy, comfy stuff maybe. But I do think that's there's some like insight to be gained. Yeah. From that. Yeah. And I think so badly right now. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah, seriously. Um, and we also don't need to like something that I notice just in the world in general right now that like grinds against just like my core being a little bit is this like we got to move fast mentality that's like kind of everywhere. Mhm. And so I think I don't know what the solution is, but I think like personally I have a tendency to like want time and space to process and think through things and like not necessarily go on social media and like post about it or post other things. So I think like giving I guess I just wanted to share that as an option like there are different ways to react to these things. Some people like double down in service to their clients and helping them show up. Some people like me want to go and these aren't mutually exclusive, but some people like want to go inward and take some time and space to process. Some people have like freeze responses and identify that there's a lot of like grief coming up and there's a need to like express grief. So maybe there's something to be found in like processing that grief. There are a lot of different ways to react and I don't think any of them are wrong. And I think however for anyone listening, however you are responding to what is happening, whether you have a reaction that's like fight, let me like get in there and talk about this. Whether you have a reaction to like ground yourself and double down into what you're doing or just like kind of step back a little bit and recalibrate and watch, there's something potentially valuable. Yeah. in that to share with your people that could be of service. I I love the way you framed it. Um I talk about it as like it is the static between two clear stations on the dial. It's totally normal. It's totally necessary. And there's always wisdom in there. Like there is always you don't even and you don't have to act on the wisdom. It's not like oh god so now I have a project now I got to turn this grief into poetry. [laughter]
You don't necessarily but we are I think just like we are creative problem-solving beings. It is in our nature. It's the it is why the doom scrolling feels good. That's why these algorithms are like designed the way that they're designed because it's like, oh, just watch the next video. Maybe the solution will be there. Maybe there'll be something to do, someone to yell at, something to point out, something to say. Um,
I think that like that for so long that like response has kind of been gamed. Mhm. But if we claim it and assume there is wisdom here, there is something for me here, there's something that wants to be heard and responded to, I think it can like open up that question of like if I take this path, what is it reinforcing? Who is it serving?
and seeing the answer to that and just being really like clear about it is going to tell you so much rather than saying it's wrong. Yeah. Yeah. I think like what I'm gleaning from this is like the most valuable thing you can do in periods of like political [ __ ] storm or personal [ __ ] storm is like allow yourself to be human cuz I think that also like comes across. I mean there are some people who will hate anything you share no matter what. There are some people who love everything you share no matter what. like that will allow you to like yeah like you just like be human. You're a human in the world and you're like trying to learn how to serve other humans in a very complicated world. So like tend to yourself and you'll be able to serve others better. Yep. I also think one thing that it feels like a little bit of of a pivot, but I think it's important to say in times where, and I'm saying this to myself as well, in times where you're struggling and things feel overwhelming and complicated and scary and horrifying,
one of the most precious gifts you can give to your clients is space to connect with what they're feeling and to process. Yeah. Um [clears throat] and so if you're not feeling like at the top of your coaching game cuz you have a lot on your mind, like sometimes I think what's needed most in times like this is just space to like connect to what to a person someone's humanity and to have the the time and the space and the attention to do that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it also comes down to like make sure you have your own support like maybe with every service provider kind of person out there, but and artists and like all of the people, but like I know especially for coaches, it's like sometimes it's really easy to slip into the what I consider a trap where you think, well, I know all the tools. I know how to process with other people, so I don't need someone to help me do that. I just I'll just do it for myself. I was an acupuncturist. It's possible to give yourself acupuncture in some places. It's not the best. I can't imagine. It is like not that fun. It's not that relaxing. It's not that effective. And truly your own diagnosis of what you need is probably wrong. Yeah. Like not wrong, but like it's probably not the complete picture of what someone who is standing outside of you observing you in ways that you can never observe yourself. Um I I coach I have a coach. I work with them like every other week. Um, I've worked with the same person for years. Like sometimes I will come, I'll be like, I don't even know what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling, and my mind is blown by the end of that time with that person because I really didn't know what I was thinking until I said it out loud. I didn't know what I was feeling until I was finally not the person with the coach hat on. But it was actually like just allowed to be a human and be witnessed and then have that person reflect back to me some possibilities for what could be useful for the time. Yeah. I also think doing this alone. Yeah. I think that's so important. And I will also say like especially in times when communities are being attacked and like individuals are being attacked and also there's like attempts to like create more division. It's these are communal problems and I think the solutions have to also be in community like I don't think this is a case where having it's fine to like have a cry session and process the feelings in your body. I think that's a beautiful thing. And also, it's like part of the medicine for I think this this moment that we're in is experiencing some of these things together. Yeah. And having them validated by other people and not feeling alone in [clears throat] them and building connections and community through that. Yeah. And not being the one who's always holding it. Yeah. like as someone who has burnt out not in this profession somehow but in other work where I was holding a lot of the person's story and their health condition and a lot of things and it was like totally private and regulated and all of that um our systems should not hold everything and I think it creates like a weird relationship ship with yourself. If you can never put all of what you might be feeling and holding like for for everything I just said about like I want to be curious and open with people. I want to like hold space for them to like maybe they're going to come across the field and see something totally different and I want to be available for that deconstruction. Um, I need to have a space where I can have my own opinions, where I can have the strong opinions and say what I really need to say and say what I'm really feeling and express my anger and frustration and sadness and all of that as a human in total safety. Mhm. I would just like encourage people especially if you're coaching on a lot of heavy emotional global stuff or which everyone is. Everyone is whether they're doing it directly or not. Yeah. Even if they're not bringing it, you are. It's in the air. Like it's impossible not to. Yeah. You need a place to like drop off that to check that luggage in. Yeah. somewhere else and have it resorted and be this is like a trap that I fall into often. For me, my uh comfortable default when times get tough and emotionally charged for a lot of people is to like go into the helper mode where [laughter] I like just put my emotions in the back seat and I'm like what are and like hold impeccable space for people and also like that is not sustainable. [snorts] No. And then we and then we like burn ourselves out and then the people who really need us don't have us and the whole helper thing falls apart which every I mean all of us are going to have that. No one who no one who like doesn't want to help people becomes a like you know you know what I really hate people so why am I no it's because one or two yeah [laughter]
[gasps] but there was love underneath it I think yes [laughter] but yeah like our like we we love our clients we want to be fully there for them like one of the ways that the only way that can happen is if like you are cared for. Yeah. So we I think I think we do we need like spaces to actually have our own independent opinions, fears, concerns, static challenges, all of it. Um and be safely held by another. And I think the world is revealing the need for that more and more. [laughter] though you I think even if you have operated pretty independently before now's the time to call on your community and get some support if you don't have it in place already or if you do expand the support. I don't think there's like any amount of support that's too much right now for folks. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. [clears throat] [sighs] Well, how was your drink? Delicious. I'm gonna make that again. It was really good. How was yours? It's good. Yeah. I'm surprised I didn't even finish it. We were This was Okay, so everybody, this was heavy, but hopefully thoughtful. Just like hopefully hopefully we made it a little fun even though hopefully it was fun. Be fun, but like these are things that maybe are because like as you said, it's in the air. It's in the ether. Um, it might be good to like put some thought into how you are responding, how are you supporting yourself, what it is you need and just like give yourself the space to like figure that out for yourself. Um, FYI, there's always going to be somebody out there telling you how you're supposed to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Very well. It'll never be what you thought it was. Yeah. [laughter] My My hope with this, if not fun, I hope this conversation was accessible. Yeah. Yeah. Like I I kind of want Yeah. I hope this conversation was accessible. Um and I also just want to be clear like this is an ongoing exploration for me. Like I don't I haven't come to like hard hard solutions or answers. I'm still figuring it out. Um, and so if anyone out there has any ways that they approach things differently or any things that they want to offer around this, I'd be very curious to hear. No, it's all going to be comments like, "I didn't know she was a Canadian socialist witch. Drag queens, how dare [laughter] you? The bots are already trolling us." Oh my god. [laughter] That's fine.
Stop being so political. You're supposed to be a coach. [laughter] Yeah, those comments can be checked at the door if they want to. Or I'll just imagine the bots in drag, which would be kind of fun as well. Oo, sexy drag bots. [laughter] I would I would watch that show. I would to I would 100% watch that show. I would love to be a judge on that show. I'm very unqualified and I don't care. [laughter]
All right, thanks everyone for listening. [laughter]
