Yeah, there you go. You weren't expecting that today. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I don't know what our stories can Can you tell me your feeling vulnerable? What horrible What Sorry. I want to help with you feeling your vulnerable feeling, but I don't know that I've had any horror stories. Um, that's good because you have good boundaries. No, I No. Um, I pro Yeah. I mean, I've done, honestly, I've done therapy for much longer than I've done coaching. Um, where I think, not saying there are terrible therapists out there. Thankfully, I have not dealt with them, but there are like more standardized the good ones. You vetted the people. You just let someone's good sales technique tell you like, "Oh, I'm sure if they're good at sales, they're great." I will say though I have been on the other end of the hard cell and experienced that and it I think coming out of that I think it worked on me once and then never again because I paid attention to how I felt after and I decided a I'm not going to buy from anyone who really pushes me to make a decision on that call. I know it's a very common tactic in this industry and I hate it. I'm a person who like I sometimes have trouble connecting to how I'm feeling when I'm with another person, especially when it's like a charged relationship where I know that they have an agenda to sell me something or that even if they are like keeping my best interest at heart, I know that they probably want me to buy something from them. So, I I have a lot of trouble connecting with like how I'm feeling and I need to be able to spend time with myself in order to decide that and I just like don't make big financial decisions like that. I'm just not I've I've always been a person who likes to spend time thinking about that. So, I will say that felt and that was actually I was I had already coached with this person. we were nearing the end of their package or my package with them and um they did like transition to talking about it and it was like in a way of like I'm coaching to support you but I could tell it was like let's talk about this so you decide whether or not you're going to buy and renew with me and like I just I could people can smell that [ __ ] like it is not subtle and it's also just Like personally, I'm not say I'm sure this coach has evolved. They were a really incredible coach when we were working together, but this just didn't sit well with me. Um, but I think I don't I don't talk about renewals in my packages like because that is paid time. I'm not going to use paid time. Yes. To do like a glorified consult. That doesn't sit right with me. And if I do with a caveat that I do offer like I note in the session, hey, we have like two more sessions left. Let me know if you want to work anything out. I'm here to support you, but like I just wanted to let you know. We could have a conversation about that if you want to. So, it's like fully clientled. I'm a resource for them if they want it. But yeah, I think that's like the ickiest experience I've had coaching though. And honestly, even though we had a really good time, I had a great time coaching with this person, I still feel a little bit like because that was such a I felt so on the spot like I had to say yes or no. I had brought I had something in mind that I wanted to coach on that day. It was just very like jarring to me in a way that I didn't like. Totally. Um yeah, I mean I definitely in my earlier days kind of followed a certain format of consults basically until I realized the same thing like I don't want to bring the like I don't want to ask someone to make a decision on on a call where they've just met me because that doesn't feel right and that's not how I make decisions. But yeah, I I mean I made that mistake a number of times just kind of following a sales method that all these people were like this works and I have a great close rate and all of that and I you know I was naive in that way until at some point I was like this doesn't feel right. This doesn't feel good. And um I'll quote um our one of our mentors, Bev, who says, "What if if it doesn't feel right, it's because you're trying to do something that's totally misaligned with you?" Like, what if that is a lie for you? And it's okay that it works for other people, and it's okay if other people feel genuinely that that method is in the best interest of the person, but if it doesn't feel like that for you, why are you doing it? And for the set me free. I too um don't want I actually say this in an email. I actually only now email. I'm I'm like this is where we're at in your package. I will not be bringing this up on a session because your session is your time. But if you want to have a separate call to talk about what the next chapter could look like if you know if you want to continue this relationship. And I will just say for coaches listening um I have a really high renewal rate. I have worked with most of my clients for years. It is why am I like I I my clients my current clients have been my clients for a long time. My whole business success is because of those relationships. So, I say that not as like this is just a thing I think, but this is a thing that's helped me really preserve incredible relationships where my clients never feel like I'm just counting down the the ticker to like when can I get paid by this person again? Like I just just don't do that. Um, and that has worked. So, if people are like, "What will work?" I'm like, "That worked has worked really well for me. It sounds like that's helped you not put weird icky pressure in your relationships. Yes. And I also want to say, okay, I might steal that that idea of like emailing, by the way. That's brilliant. Um, I hope that for for anyone listening, especially for like newer coaches, if you're listening, I hope this conversation feels like permission rather than like I'm doing it wrong because I think I'm so glad that you shared you also followed that format. And I've I didn't follow that format, but like I've done a lot of [ __ ] that like I've evolved as a coach and a person. And so, um, I want to normalize going along with industry standards and then getting in touch with how they actually feel with you and pivoting. I think that's like a beautiful thing. And I if there's something that you feel a strong sense of resistance toward or that just doesn't really feel right to you, maybe you don't have to try harder at doing the thing that doesn't feel great. Instead, maybe your intuition or your knowing or whatever you want to call it is telling you that like you want to do business in a different way. Yeah. And I hope this feels like permission to explore that. Yes. I just it it is per it's permission to explore. It's permission to change how you've done it. Like I feel bad for all the people I talked to for the first like year and a half of my business. Like I'm sorry about those terrible consults and like whatever I thought I was doing to like follow the method. Um, but maybe I would have done that and it would have been amazing and I would have like that would have worked really beautifully and it felt right and that would have been fine. It just did not happen to work for me. Yeah. And there might be people out there who respond to that who would say an indecision and go back and forth and feel like it's a breath of fresh air to make a decision on a call. So, it's not I'm not saying like that I personally I have my personal opinion on it that I feel good about, but like that's not to say anyone who does it a different way is wrong. 100%. And I mean, okay, here's another here's another one. This is my bad boundaries. Episode Yeah, there's no alcohol here. I'm just sharing totally sober, which feels harder. I was also on a call on a consult call. This was a person who had been recommended to me and they had a really like pushy sales tactic. Um it was for a someone who was going to help me with a certain project and they basically just talked over me the whole time. talked about how amazing they were, how many projects a year they do, how busy they are, how if we work together, they only have between like 11 and 1:30 on Wednesdays, that would be my time and blah d. And then I was like, okay, this person did not read the intake form, does not know that I've done this type of project, you know, for for years. Like I I'm not an inexperienced newbie in this space. And um then the last thing that they said I had told them that I own my company. I had I don't know why I told them how much money I made. Um but it was like not insignificant. It was Mhm. It was a I was having a good year. It was one of my first really good years. Um and then at the end of the call, this woman said to me, "Now, I know you'll have to talk it over with your husband. and you'll have to ask him about whether you can do this. So, what I'm going to do is I'd love to get his email, too, so that I can email you both the proposal so that he can understand all of these. It was nothing to do with I was like, how I'm like, did I even mention that I have a husband? What? Okay. What's What's worse? picking your teeth on a paid coaching call or a woman tell another woman she knows that I can't make a decision to like talk to my husband even husband I'm sorry I am I'm offended okay I'm like viscerally offended by the picking teeth thing but like I am uh morally spiritually offended by the assumption that a you have a husband if you haven't mentioned him And B, you have to like consult him on decisions like what? Oh no.
You should have added something to this. You're going to have to after this conversation. I am. I'm gonna I'm gonna pop a little jin in there. Um. Yeah. But but I mean that was I think that was probably what like sealed the deal for me. I was like gh like I I have I think it's fine to say like hey you might want to talk this over with your like to be like very open and say like you may have other people who are part of this decision and it was just a total blanket assumption. It was super offensive obviously did not I did not work with that person because I had learned my lesson but that's I think when I decided that I was like no more of this [ __ ] I am not pressuring people. I am not um gonna answer questions they didn't ask me. I am not going to talk about myself. I they can like I will I'm here for whatever that person needs. And if all I do is just have a connection with them, great. That that actually was another just a beautiful learning about how not to do it. So yeah. Oh my god. I can't I can't. But I do think it's I think the common theme in what we're talking about here which has evolved from quite beautifully from the initial conversation and a way I love I love that that happens. Um, but I think the common theme here is like you got to treat your clients like people, like autonomous people who have value and have their own stuff going on and you like can't make assumptions about because they matter as individual humans. Like I think that and that's never a bad business move. I think like it's never bad or going to hurt your business or if it does like I I don't want a business that's built on the opposite. Um but like you treat people like human beings who you can't like project yourself onto them or just view them as like money machines. Yes. This is um I just think if we maybe think about if someone's willing to get on the phone to talk with you candidly about something important to them, a change that they're scared to make. Like I think that is very sacred. I think that's um that takes guts for people and I just wouldn't want someone I love to show up on a call and just be sold to. Um Um, I mean, I I have a client actually who I've who I've worked with for a long time, and I remember when she did her initial I used to have the form where I would say like this is I have I mean, it's still on my form. I don't I'm I tell people exactly how much my programs are, but it said it's a significant investment of of money. Like, are you do you feel comfortable making that? And her response was like, "I don't know. I don't make a lot of money. Not sure it'll work." And I remember thinking to myself when I saw the thing, I was just like, "Oh no, somebody who I'm going to have to like go through the uncomfortable like pricing stuff with and I almost canceled the consult." I was like like just from my discomfort. I was like, "This person's not going to be able to afford it. We're going to have this great conversation probably and then I'm going to tell them the price and I'm going to watch their face drop and it's going to be like so hard for me to to do that again because hundreds of people after like years of doing it, you know, you talk to people and you care about them and then they find out. And this was the old kind of method that I followed. I'm so glad I had that conversation because the person actually said, "This is more than I can spend. I want to do it because I I think I really need to just take a chance on this and I feel really connected with you. So like let's do it. If we can do a payment plan, let's do it. Which I did. And that business owner like grew to a seven figureure business. Like she is one she is one of my success stories. She she shared this publicly. So I'm not sharing anything that she um hasn't talked about publicly. Um, but it was one of those things where like I could have screwed that up by not viewing her taking the step towards me as a sacred thing. Mhm. And like just judging based on like a form and not seeing the complex person before me who was like looking for something. Mhm. So, I I just I think there's a lot of people in the world who need things and maybe it's not always going to be the exact thing that we as coaches do, but like maybe there's a really good reason to talk to as many people as possible when they take the initiative to reach out to you. Whether it's a message on social media, a consult call, someone responding to your email, like you don't know how much your interaction with that person could actually change not that just their life but your life.
Yeah. Yeah. What's so beautiful about that as well in the context of this conversation is you didn't neither did you like take a step back and be and just assume that you knew it was going to be a no nor did you try to like hard sell her or or like push her into anything. You just created space for her to pursue what she wanted and you showed up like as truthfully um and with as much connection as possible. Yeah. And like that's all you really got to do. All you have to do because the people who are motivated to do the heavy lifting of this mindset work and whatever tools that we give them, if they're willing to do it, then they are going to have an incredible time. And I think that too many people put so much emphasis on the slick sales and the psychological let's create psychological safety so we can get to a like what if you just created safety for people to do what they want to do.
I think that that I think it's a better business. I I don't feel stressed when I talk to people now. I am not I it's really nice. Why do you think more people don't do that? I Okay, so I think it's two two or three things maybe. Um, one, I think a lot of people jump into entrepreneurship without really having their own financial security sorted out. Like I think we get passionate, excited about the dream. We're like, "Yes, I'm quitting my corporate job and I'm jumping into this thing and I'm going to make it work and I'm going to replace my salary." Um, and then we find out that it's not just doing what you love all day. As you know, running a business is about, what do they say? It's like 5% of doing what you love and then 95% of stuff you didn't know even existed. Like you have to learn. There's just so much learning that happens. And then there's the confidence of being a new coach. Um, like I think what happens is sometimes the dynamic is people get into a situation where they need something desperately from that other person. They need that client to say yes so that they feel like they are going to be able to pay their mortgage. And that's tough because yeah, you do need you probably do need to pay your mortgage. Yes. But if that's anywhere in that conversation with that person, it's probably like it just for especially for what we do, it's hard to be fully present. Mhm. Yeah. I think that's true for a lot of things that like the pressure is is kind of an aathema to actually creating space to do the thing. Well, so yeah, I I mean I see that a lot in the arts where people have a lot of their identity, a lot of their financial stuff tied up in the success of something and it's completely paralyzing for the actual process of doing it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's and it's depleting when you're trying to do something that feels so good and so right to you, but then for some reason the bank account isn't reflecting what your heart is calling for and what your vision is pointing you towards. Like I think that that's scary and I think that that can derail your confidence and your trust and your attention. And then I I think it's like a vicious cycle because then it makes you less effective as a as an artist or as a coach or as a you know practitioner of some kind. It's really distracting. So, I think that's I think that's like a big reason is the the setup isn't there for you to actually have the space to learn and grow and, you know, ramp up in a way that most businesses figure out.
Like startups get capital sometimes before there's even a product. They just have a good idea and they pitch it and some VC firm's like, "Sure, sounds great. Here's a million bucks." Not every I mean, there's of course bootstrap companies, but it's really hard to get people to invest in a service-based business.
And it's a lot of you having to generate that energy and do the things. And it I just think that people often will underestimate just how much emotional energy goes into starting a business and then they don't give themselves necessarily the runway to do it financially and have the emotional support or their own coaching team. Like it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. Which I think is to say like if you hear us and you're like I like these things sound good in theory but I have a mortgage to pay. I think viewing uh supporting yourself like you you might choose to invest in your own business for a bit like I think that's what I did when I was starting out and I'm I may do it again where you like you know have a day job or find other ways to make money while you're in order to support your business because a lot of new businesses they do in order to get off the ground They do require a ramp up that is not quite as pressurized of an environment. 100%. And even if it's not even if it even if you're like totally fine financially, you maybe you've said I'm putting aside a year's worth of my salary as a coach or as a servicebased business so that I don't ever have to worry about my salary. It's just going to come out. That nest egg is there. Even then, what is the support, the emotional support that you need? What is like what do you are you going to hire someone to help you with like the systems and the back end and that stuff? Or are you going to give yourself the room to learn some of those things? Um, I'm really curious. We're gonna I think we're going to talk about AI maybe next time. Um because I think there's I know you and I have different opinions and I'm to hear them but like there are you know different tools than when I started this business in like 2018 that we don't necessarily have to be the one doing everything and understanding everything and building everything. Like I remember like how do I make a website? How do I start a blog? There was there were lots of people saying, "Oh, it's going to be a $10,000 project. It's going to take six months." And I was like, "Wow, I need to figure this out myself because I didn't have that financial runway." Um, but things are different now. Yeah. I will also add I think a a big thing that for me was integral in being able to show up to consults with like leading with the client and like sitting back a little bit and just kind of creating space for them to um pursue what they wanted and to explore what they wanted was um building trust that I had something to offer if not them just like in general because I think that enabled me to show up engaged but letting them like be center and me just kind of knowing okay like if these things come up I can help with them and here's how in a way that did not feel quite so like give me like so graspy and so and where I felt like my self worth was tied up into that. So I think that's also to to this point of if you're struggling with that, maybe solve for that and like see how you can create an environment where you can solve for that. Whether that's getting more experience, whether that's supporting yourself in other ways so there's not as much pressure on every conversation that you have. But I think that is like a pretty magical combination when you are not you don't need the other person to sign with you when your well-being is not tied up in their decision. You can really help them figure out what would be best for them, which feels so much better. Um, but you can also have confidence knowing that like you can support them in certain in certain ways. Yeah. And I mean, time does take care of that. Like as you get more experience, I think we get less attached to being like, "Oh, but that person, I can help them so much. I hope that they say yes." Like you can have consults or discovery calls or like periods of time where you work with someone, you're like, I can help them. That will be great if they choose to do this. But if they don't, like here's here's a thought you could borrow if this resonates with you. But um I used to think like there's nothing I can do to make the wrong person work with me and there's nothing I can do that's going to scare away or not have the right person come in. And it just gave me permission for when I was like, "Oh, but I really loved that person and they didn't email me back and they didn't say yes and they didn't sign." I'm like, maybe there were things going on that were going to be a total pain in the ass. Maybe they were going to have way bigger issues in their business that I was not ever going to be able to deliver what that person needed. Like I just assume that like the the nos are a gift. The people who don't join that's a gift. It's a gift for them because they're going to go find what they need. It's a gift for me because my business is really nice and I very I love all my clients and it's beautiful. Um something we've talked about before, but I I just wanted to bring it back. This was I don't know like maybe you could share what's been helpful for you in that, but for me it was also making sure I have a hobby. like making sure I have things outside of my business that bring me joy, that are fulfilling, that have nothing to that don't need to be good. Like I really like to knit. I'm not that good at it. Um, and I'm really slow and all my stuff has like holes and like the sleeves on the sweaters are often not the same length, but I like I like it. It's fun. There's no consequence to that not being brilliant, but I still get a sense of satisfaction because I just made this like cute little misshapen sweater for me and that's fun. Yeah. So, I think like having things in your life where they're fun, they're joyful, the stakes are not high and you don't have to be brilliant at them is underestimated in the world. Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah, I think having more going on outside because it is very easy to get completely wrapped up in coaching in your business and this one thing. I think basically anything that helps the stakes feel lower. Whether that's like just mindset stuff that you tell yourself, whether that is um filling your life up outside of coaching, whether that is uh supporting yourself in different ways, whether that's like getting more people on your team either literally or figuratively. Anything that helps the stakes feel lower. So well said. Yeah. Yeah. This was awesome. I can't believe I just my horror stories to you and for for everyone's entertainment. I'm going to be I'm going to think about I'm I'm sure I have more horror stories. Maybe I blocked them out, but we can some to unear them for me. Thank you. Let the lid stay on. Keep them keep them in the vault. They've been digested. You're good.
This was a pleasure as always. Um, how can people work with you, Erin? How can people find you? They can find me at bsuperbound.com. Where is where this uh the show notes are currently living at bsuperbound.com/coachingmixer. And I have links for both of us there. I have links to you and to your Instagram. Um, but tell us your website in case someone is like hasn't not I almost said photographic memory. No, they're driving. They're hearing. They remember words. What is that called? Audio. Auditory. Sure. I don't know. But they remember when they hear things. This is for them, right? Photographic memory, but they're not looking at it. Yeah, they're not looking at it. I'm sure there are lots of people out there being this is a word. We I you know it's a Thursday. It's late in the week.
Anyway, um my my uh website is Elena Mccernin. No, it's not. Wow. Are we really not drinking right now? What is happening? Slip something in my drink. You might have You did slip something in my drink. I made this myself. Um it's coachingwith elena.com. coachingwith elena.com. My Instagram is Elena Mccernin. Yes, thank you. Yeah, we've we've opened on vacation, everybody. Um I hope that our silliness was fun for you. But but yeah, reminders that you don't have to uh it's your business. You don't have to do anything that doesn't feel in alignment for you when it comes to marketing, selling, how you work with people. You get to create it. It's the fun part. Yep. And chances are you listening to what feels in alignment with you and following that will be good for your business. 100%. I I have a lot of evidence that that is true. Mhm. And I hope everybody is willing to do that experiment for themselves and see. Yay. Thank you. All right. Thank you for listening. Thank you, Erin. Bye. Bye.
